Curse

Zahr Dalsk · Sep 12, 2007, 09:47 PM // 21:47

We don't need fame in PvE, we need emotes in PvE for titles such as Kurzick/Luxon title track, Sunspear/Lightbringer tracks, Asura/Deldrimor/Norn/Vanguard tracks (so, faction tracks), as well as for the KoaBD track and maybe a couple others. That way when a PvP elitist comes to PvE and flashes their fame emote we can flash an emote back at them.

Ec]-[oMaN · Sep 12, 2007, 09:56 PM // 21:56

May as well shut down this thread also

CyberNigma · Sep 12, 2007, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

Elitist? Giving fame to PvE is f*cking retarded. It's like giving ecto per RA win or some shit. Why is it that when a PvPer shoots down a horrible, horrible idea, some random PvErs come out and call him elitist for it? Get over yourself, it's a bad idea and anyone with half a brain can see that, whether they prefer to play PvE or PvP.

I can go through Proph in all of 4 missions, master quests are stupidly simple with a decent group, and challenge missions are a joke. You want fame for that? Jesus. What's next, champion title for killing Glint? Gold trim for dancing naked in LA for an hour?

I'm not for fame in pve, as I could care less about fame. However, giving ecto to RA winners is about as stupid as giving stuff like gold crystallines and other pve skins to HA winners. You can craft a perfect weapon or perfect armour already. There is no need for any of the special skins outside of pve. The idea of getting something wanted that much by pve'er for playing the C+SPACE version of PvP is kind of funny.

Go to Quakecon sometime and see how much PvP involves pressing C followed by SPACE. Even those that talk about PvP in Korea, RTS is big there which involves quite a bit more strategy than 8 characters pressing 8 a few keys. GW PvP is for those that are left out of real PvP just like PvE in GW is for those that don't like the hardcore grinding PvE of other games.

Tonka PvP and PvE...

BlackSephir · Sep 12, 2007, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Hahaha, fame for pve, you almost got me there. I thought you were serious. Oh man, I must say that was a really good joke. And you managed to keep straight face when talking about this.
/salute

NEdemar · Sep 12, 2007, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkrunner25

The #1 reason PvP is in decline/near death is very simple and has been mentioned before.

The longer this game runs the less accessible PvP becomes to new players.

As it stands right now a new player who wants to pick up Guild Wars and play PvP has to spend $120 for the Prophecies/Factions/Nightfall PvP packs. Even then he will not have any runes/weapon mods/insignia's unlocked.

Then what does he do? Completes the training missions and the zaishen challenge and unlocks Random Arenas? Now he's in RA, he's got 10 different classes with 10 different secondaries to choose from. Thousands of different skills, weapons, armor, runes, insignia's to choose from.

So lets say he chooses a class and some skills and manages to win 5 matches in RA eventually (without getting disillusioned with the game due to the horrid state of RA). Now he's unlocked Team Arenas. Is anyone in TA going to let this guy into their team? Even if he manages to get into some pug group, the minute they ask him to Ctrl-click his skill bar he will be laughed out of the group and replaced.

So by some miracle he manages to win 5 consecutive in TA before he uninstalls. Now he has Heroes Ascent unlocked. There is absolutely ZERO chance this guy will get into ANY HA group, honestly. If he isn't completely ignored for having 0 fame he will again be kicked from any group that asks him to run some standard build that he will have no clue about.

So what are his options now? Join a pvp guild? Even the low level pvp guilds are asking for R6+ or Champion titles these days. So what guild can he join? A PvE guild, but are any PvE guild recruiting in The Great Temple of Balthazaar? No, so he /uninstalls and buys WoW.

For a brand new GW player with no friends in the game is there really any other way this scenario could play out? Lets face it, even the most hardcore of PvP players got their start in PvE. Playing the PvE campaign is the best and only way to learn to play your class, and in the beginning the only way to unlock the stuff you needed for PvP.

The only way to breathe new life into GW PvP in my opinion is for Anet to release a $40 PvP pack that is FULLY UNLOCKED. Every skill, weapon mod, insignia and inscription from every campaign. Even that probably isn't enough, somehow PvP needs to become more accessible, and I dont have that answer.

Sorry for the long read I got carried away.

-Phantom.

I'm quoting this because you have put down exactly my thoughts on what, for me, was the biggest issue I've had with the game since I started playing of this year in May. I love PvP and heard it was pretty amazing in this game, which I do believe it is, but If it weren't for the PvE, I would have no clue as to what I'm doing. It's also a good thing that I'm resourceful and like to read up about these things, because for someone new who isn't that involved with learning these things (my brother for example who I got to play the game two months later) PvP in this game is pretty much out of the question.

I would love to participate in the AB or even HA battles...but in reality don't see that happening. In RA I'm getting asked what I'm "running" and I usually don't reply simply because I don't know what they're talking about. The only PvP I do is RA, and it's fun, for a little while, but I wouldn't mind taking the next step...which I'd think is TA, and I have a very difficult time adjusting to things if someone told me to make a certain build. It takes me a while to get used to something new like that, so I can't say with certainty I'd be any good to them. Again, the PvE though has allowed me the freedom to try things out and get used to doing different things, but it will never compensate for the human thinking factor that you get in PvP.

I think for me the most difficult thing about the PvP in general is it alienates and punishes new players who are looking to try it, and want to learn.

Yichi · Sep 12, 2007, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEdemar

I started playing of this year in May. I love PvP and heard it was pretty amazing in this game, which I do believe it is, but If it weren't for the PvE, I would have no clue as to what I'm doing. It's also a good thing that I'm resourceful and like to read up about these things, because for someone new who isn't that involved with learning these things (my brother for example who I got to play the game two months later) PvP in this game is pretty much out of the question.

I would love to participate in the AB or even HA battles...but in reality don't see that happening. In RA I'm getting asked what I'm "running" and I usually don't reply simply because I don't know what they're talking about. The only PvP I do is RA, and it's fun, for a little while, but I wouldn't mind taking the next step...which I'd think is TA, and I have a very difficult time adjusting to things if someone told me to make a certain build. It takes me a while to get used to something new like that, so I can't say with certainty I'd be any good to them. Again, the PvE though has allowed me the freedom to try things out and get used to doing different things, but it will never compensate for the human thinking factor that you get in PvP.

I think for me the most difficult thing about the PvP in general is it alienates and punishes new players who are looking to try it, and want to learn.

Do not get frustrated by a learning curve. Every game, sport, or actiity will have one. PvP isnt just something that you can jump into and be able to execute well or to a high degree of success. It takes some time to fool around with different builds and different professions to be able to understand fully and figure out which ones work and which ones do not. Check the PvP forums here in the Gladiators Arena for some general terminology and general information about the different classes and skills. Talk to people in areas like RA, TA, HA, and such. You would be suprised that people will actually respond to your questions. Yes you will get a lot of dumbass people that will give you a dumbass answer, but you will find a few people who will actually be able to help you. Once you have the idea behind the build or class that you wanna run, go to RA and practice it. Learn your cast times and reactional situations. Granted you might not win, but just take that time to learn your character. Practice kiting, casting, canceling, etc. All the things you would do in a higher level of PvP.

PvP will only alienate the players that do not want to put in the effort to get involved in it. Anyone who is just wanting to play the occasional match here and there will be able to do so, just not as often or with the success they would like, but the same can be said for ANY game that has PvP play in it.

edit: me and spelling today FTL

Darlichay Dalinar · Sep 12, 2007, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Focus changes within MMO's; just a point of fact.

Floski · Sep 13, 2007, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSGashapon

Yup, the CPL can really hold a candle to the MBA, the NFL, the NHL, PGA... I remember reading an article (not that long ago, but Google is letting me down) about how "professional" gaming will never become a national sport, or should even be considered a sport in the first place. You don't see it broadcast on television nearly as widespread as althetic sports, because pro-gaming is a "sport" that no one really notices.

I guess then women's sports aren't really sports. Also, I read this article somewhere on the internet that Google isn't finding for me right now. It said that women weren't really people and they shouldn't have been considered people in the first place. I just thought this random article that came from the internet somewhere with 0 documentation would support my bullshit argument. kk bye

Vanquisher · Sep 13, 2007, 06:36 AM // 06:36

After reading the last 2 pages of rubbish, I have one question... Why do people who have no interest in doing HA even want fame?

RSGashapon · Sep 13, 2007, 06:49 AM // 06:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floski

I guess then women's sports aren't really sports. Also, I read this article somewhere on the internet that Google isn't finding for me right now. It said that women weren't really people and they shouldn't have been considered people in the first place. I just thought this random article that came from the internet somewhere with 0 documentation would support my bullshit argument. kk bye

Nice, trying to claim I'm sexist because I didn't include Women's sports? Even Women's sports are mentioned on television more frequently than "professional gaming" events. Let's see, when was the last time the LPGA was mentioned on national TV? Hm, just recently with the announcement of the 2007 Solhiem Cup. When was the CPL last mentioned? Oh that's right... never.

Can we lock this stupid thread now?

Shuuda · Sep 13, 2007, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanquisher

After reading the last 2 pages of rubbish, I have one question... Why do people who have no interest in doing HA even want fame?

For the cheesy dog**** of an emote. I've heard been able to flash a tiger makes one "Teh Uber 1337"

Tijger · Sep 13, 2007, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

For the cheesy dog**** of an emote. I've heard been able to flash a tiger makes one "Teh Uber 1337"

Hehe, just ask the Charr

DreamWind · Sep 13, 2007, 07:59 AM // 07:59

A lot to respond to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

So, it's not important which came first, the chicken or the egg. It's important which sells more, and which the restaurant choses to work harder on cooking. That is the issue, leave the past where it belongs.

So you are basically with the attitude "let PvP die" when it was the most unique part of the game?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

ok, so I guess the trailer for Guild Wars which included Cynn, Devona, and that other ranger henchie was nothing? Wow, I could have sworn that it was PvE in that video. Seriously, GTF over yourself with all of your elitest PvP crap. Do what you want, and have fun with what you want. Why must people be such arrogant assholes like this guy?

I am not claiming that PvE wasn't always in the game, I am claiming that PvP used to be a much larger part of the game than it is now. In Prophecies, the entire game was set up so PvP was the endgame! Nowadays, PvE is taking over and PvP is a fading memory. I'll ignore insults as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Various People Throughout this Thread

Give fame for PvE

This is probably the worst idea I have ever heard. Stop wasting time even discussing it. The only people who would even talk about this are players who don't have the skill to earn it correctly.

Not only that, but I find it hilarious that you want a PvP title in PvE. PvP is NOT meant for grind, it is meant for skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcady

Isn't it s bit overkill to post the same exact topic on both of the two major GW's forums?

Nah...some people don't read both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darko Uk

Competitive doesn't mean PvP

Without Pve this game would of died fast, Without Pvp this game would still be going strong. Pve is larger, has more content and has the majority of the player base playing it.

Competitive means PvP in this case. The Anet founder mentions the game being built from the ground up to be competitive while talking about a PVP EVENT. How hard is that?

Also, your comment that without PvE this game would have died is not correct. There are 2 things that made Guild Wars unique...PvP and no monthly fees. If you kill both of those, then Guild Wars dies. We are halfway there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by geekling

It deserves to die and whatever efforts that goes into it needs to go elsewhere.

This argument is a joke. The REASON these things die is because effort has ALREADY been going elsewhere.

arcanemacabre · Sep 13, 2007, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

So you are basically with the attitude "let PvP die" when it was the most unique part of the game?

Of course not, I said nothing of the sort, and I don't know how you got that from what I did say. I am simply refuting the point of this thread, which seemed to originally be to prove which "came first." I'm saying it's not important, because it isn't.

If they spend more time on one 'side' than the other, it is likely because that one side gives them more money - there's just more PvEers than PvPers, basically. Not saying it's right, or even should be that way, just stating what is likely the truth. I honestly feel the game should be a good balance of both, and equal care for both sides. Obviously PvE takes more time to work on, because of skins, quests, environments, etc. But PvP should be cared for - balance, maps, tournaments, exploits taken care of, etc.

However, you seemed to want to show that PvP came first, and therefore more important. I disagree. It doesn't matter, and it isn't more important. Both should be equal - and if that means the devs should get their act together and improve PvP, so be it - get 'r done.

Vanquisher · Sep 13, 2007, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Or it's because game designers were the managers of a company and made a mistake with their marketing strategy for this game.

Hopefully they will have learned from the experience.

Ghost Recon · Sep 13, 2007, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanquisher

Or it's because game designers were the managers of a company and made a mistake with their marketing strategy for this game.

Hopefully they will have learned from the experience.

Yer they should have learnt from there mistakes but it will be too late, there are better PvP MMO's coming out and better PvE MMO's by the time GW2 is released the community will be dead. Unless they can get it released sometime in 2008.

DreamWind · Sep 13, 2007, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Of course not, I said nothing of the sort, and I don't know how you got that from what I did say.

Sorry if I misread.

However, your claim was that it isn't important which came first, but which makes more money. I have to disagree because it IS important which came first for several reasons.

Here is one:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanquisher

Or it's because game designers were the managers of a company and made a mistake with their marketing strategy for this game.

Bingo.

They originally marketed this game trying to attract a competitive crowd, and are now doing a complete 180. Thus, many people who have supported this company for years (including me) expected one thing and are now being given another.

Malice Black · Sep 13, 2007, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Fame for PvE?! LOL! no thanks

GLFM must be rank 6+ no noobz!!!1

arcanemacabre · Sep 13, 2007, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Sorry if I misread.

However, your claim was that it isn't important which came first, but which makes more money. I have to disagree because it IS important which came first for several reasons.

The only thing that is important for any product's success is how much profit it can make. If they originally designed GW to be primarily a competitive game, which I disagree with, and it did not sell well enough for that reason, then it is in their best interest for the success of the game to alter their strategy. Now, it can be debated that how they altered their strategy and the direction they have taken PvE is not working out. If so, then they took a chance and it isn't working out.

Either way, their original intention with the game is not important and has no effect on the future of the game. I personally think that if they didn't change anything, then GW would be a huge failure by now. Instead, it is making money still. That has to mean something.

Gun Pierson · Sep 13, 2007, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Indeed, the original intention is not important. It's supply and demand, marketing. Today and tomorrow are important. The past is good to remember and to learn from.

PvE is paying the bills. Money talks as well as cheer numbers. 'Backfire' is a b..., especialy for pvp...the irony. The pvp elitist is a dying breed, soon we'll have to protect you from extinction. Nah, I won't waste my prot spirit on you. (just kidding)